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	<title>Comments on: GPL License Terms</title>
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	<link>http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/</link>
	<description>Spurring innovation and entrepreneurship.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Texas Startup Blog: Web 2.0 and Social Media &#187; Blog Archive &#187; MySQL won&#8217;t use GPLv3 (for now)</title>
		<link>http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-57383</link>
		<dc:creator>Texas Startup Blog: Web 2.0 and Social Media &#187; Blog Archive &#187; MySQL won&#8217;t use GPLv3 (for now)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jan 2007 03:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-57383</guid>
		<description>[...] The existing version of the GPL is a pre-internet document (1991) before open source business models were concieved of.&#160; The authors of the license, the Free Software Foundation, believe software should be free.&#160; I don&#8217;t agree, but I do appreciate open source as a business model.&#160; Here are the changes.&#160; Here is the current draft.&#160; We have been talking about the current &#8216;version 2&#8242; of the GPL explaining how we sought to define the term &#34;distribution&#34;.&#160; We believe that the current version of the GPL requires that software delivered as a service (hosted applications) are distributed and as a result the source must be delivered as well (others feel you do not need to release the code if it is hosted).&#160; The new GPL version tightens section six and clearly explains that the source code must be delivered if the software is hosted.&#160; Our strategy was to simply clarify our intent just before including the license. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The existing version of the GPL is a pre-internet document (1991) before open source business models were concieved of.&nbsp; The authors of the license, the Free Software Foundation, believe software should be free.&nbsp; I don&#8217;t agree, but I do appreciate open source as a business model.&nbsp; Here are the changes.&nbsp; Here is the current draft.&nbsp; We have been talking about the current &#8216;version 2&#8242; of the GPL explaining how we sought to define the term &quot;distribution&quot;.&nbsp; We believe that the current version of the GPL requires that software delivered as a service (hosted applications) are distributed and as a result the source must be delivered as well (others feel you do not need to release the code if it is hosted).&nbsp; The new GPL version tightens section six and clearly explains that the source code must be delivered if the software is hosted.&nbsp; Our strategy was to simply clarify our intent just before including the license. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Bernstein</title>
		<link>http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-55780</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Bernstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 07:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-55780</guid>
		<description>Specific Citations? No. IANAL.

However, you might reflect a moment that 'distributing copies of a work' is one of the few enumerated exclusive rights of a copyright holder. You better believe this legal term of art has an established meaning, and that your redifinition doesn't match it. Note that your redefinition is close to the 'public performance' or 'public display' rights that, unfortunately, do not apply to software (at least currently).

See here:
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

The GPL is *not* a contract, it is a license. I don't know why I have to keep repeating this. If your lawyer is telling you that the GPL is a contract, you seriously need to get a lawyer that has more experience in this area. Here is an article that explains this better than I could:
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20031214210634851

I'd be very interested to know if the FSF has specifically approved the text of your 'clarification', or if what you got was some more general approval-in-principal. Given the problems I noted with the specific text you are using, I'd be very surprised if it passed a critique by them.

I have no axe to grind, but we do seem to be talking at cross purposes. If I can't convince you of simple facts such as that the GPL is not a license, and the distribution is an established legal term of art, I guess there isn't much left to talk about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Specific Citations? No. IANAL.</p>
<p>However, you might reflect a moment that &#8216;distributing copies of a work&#8217; is one of the few enumerated exclusive rights of a copyright holder. You better believe this legal term of art has an established meaning, and that your redifinition doesn&#8217;t match it. Note that your redefinition is close to the &#8216;public performance&#8217; or &#8216;public display&#8217; rights that, unfortunately, do not apply to software (at least currently).</p>
<p>See here:<br />
<a href="http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html</a></p>
<p>The GPL is *not* a contract, it is a license. I don&#8217;t know why I have to keep repeating this. If your lawyer is telling you that the GPL is a contract, you seriously need to get a lawyer that has more experience in this area. Here is an article that explains this better than I could:<br />
<a href="http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20031214210634851" rel="nofollow">http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20031214210634851</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;d be very interested to know if the FSF has specifically approved the text of your &#8216;clarification&#8217;, or if what you got was some more general approval-in-principal. Given the problems I noted with the specific text you are using, I&#8217;d be very surprised if it passed a critique by them.</p>
<p>I have no axe to grind, but we do seem to be talking at cross purposes. If I can&#8217;t convince you of simple facts such as that the GPL is not a license, and the distribution is an established legal term of art, I guess there isn&#8217;t much left to talk about.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander Muse</title>
		<link>http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-54373</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Muse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 21:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-54373</guid>
		<description>Can you provide specific citations for the "standard" definition of distribution in copyright law?  

The GPL is a contract and therefore terms must be defined.  I have offered to discuss this on the phone and even conference in an experienced software license attorney to help everyone come to a conclusion.  My offer stands. 

In any event, our position is not out of sorts with the "framers" intent for the license.  They approve of our interpretation and feel that our clarification of terms does not 'change' the the text of the license.  That is the requirement of the license.  

Perhaps there is something else that is really going on here.  For some reason you seem to have an axe to grind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you provide specific citations for the &#8220;standard&#8221; definition of distribution in copyright law?  </p>
<p>The GPL is a contract and therefore terms must be defined.  I have offered to discuss this on the phone and even conference in an experienced software license attorney to help everyone come to a conclusion.  My offer stands. </p>
<p>In any event, our position is not out of sorts with the &#8220;framers&#8221; intent for the license.  They approve of our interpretation and feel that our clarification of terms does not &#8216;change&#8217; the the text of the license.  That is the requirement of the license.  </p>
<p>Perhaps there is something else that is really going on here.  For some reason you seem to have an axe to grind.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Bernstein</title>
		<link>http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-54369</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Bernstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-54369</guid>
		<description>Oh, and the FSF is not admitting an ambiguity, they are admitting that the GPLv2 as interpreted in context of current copyright law, leads to a result in one scenario that is not entirely consistent with their philosophy.

It is *that* that is being fixed in GPLv3 (ie. bringing the practical effects of the GPL more in line with their desired result), not any lack of clarity or of definition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and the FSF is not admitting an ambiguity, they are admitting that the GPLv2 as interpreted in context of current copyright law, leads to a result in one scenario that is not entirely consistent with their philosophy.</p>
<p>It is *that* that is being fixed in GPLv3 (ie. bringing the practical effects of the GPL more in line with their desired result), not any lack of clarity or of definition.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Bernstein</title>
		<link>http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-54368</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Bernstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-54368</guid>
		<description>The GPL relies on copyright law, not contract law. 'Distribution' is a well-defined term of art in copyright law. Your definition is different than the one established by copyright law, therefore different than the one used by the FSF, therefore this is a change.

IANAL, and TINLA, but how much simpler do I need to make this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The GPL relies on copyright law, not contract law. &#8216;Distribution&#8217; is a well-defined term of art in copyright law. Your definition is different than the one established by copyright law, therefore different than the one used by the FSF, therefore this is a change.</p>
<p>IANAL, and TINLA, but how much simpler do I need to make this?</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander Muse</title>
		<link>http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-53690</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Muse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-53690</guid>
		<description>I still don't accept that we are modifying the GPL.  If you enforce the license in court and don't have evidence of your intent the court will be required to:

a) determine a definition for distribution ~ something a court would have to hear arguments to decide.
b) determine intent of the license author and/or the intent of the author of the code in question. The authors of the license admit the ambiguity.

So instead of relying on a 63 year old judge in Mississippi who doesn't have a cell phone, much less a computer decide the fate of our little program, we decided to clarify our intent.  Just a little note before the license indicating ~ "hey we know there is confusion about the meaning of distribution, we think it means this, do if you use our software you should be willing to follow the license understanding our intent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still don&#8217;t accept that we are modifying the GPL.  If you enforce the license in court and don&#8217;t have evidence of your intent the court will be required to:</p>
<p>a) determine a definition for distribution ~ something a court would have to hear arguments to decide.<br />
b) determine intent of the license author and/or the intent of the author of the code in question. The authors of the license admit the ambiguity.</p>
<p>So instead of relying on a 63 year old judge in Mississippi who doesn&#8217;t have a cell phone, much less a computer decide the fate of our little program, we decided to clarify our intent.  Just a little note before the license indicating ~ &#8220;hey we know there is confusion about the meaning of distribution, we think it means this, do if you use our software you should be willing to follow the license understanding our intent.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Bernstein</title>
		<link>http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-53610</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Bernstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 05:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-53610</guid>
		<description>Another take on why your changes are incompatible with the GPL:
http://rakaz.nl/item/why_modifying_the_gpl_is_bad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another take on why your changes are incompatible with the GPL:<br />
<a href="http://rakaz.nl/item/why_modifying_the_gpl_is_bad" rel="nofollow">http://rakaz.nl/item/why_modifying_the_gpl_is_bad</a></p>
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		<title>By: Michael Bernstein</title>
		<link>http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-53293</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Bernstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 06:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-53293</guid>
		<description>No, Don't adopt the AGPL. It has it's own bugs (in terms of specifying the means that source must be made available).

The notice requirement I referred to is that you were effectively saying 'you must tell us that you have made a modified version' by requiring an upload to your SVN server.

I am unsure what would be the best way compatible with the GPL to accomplish the effect you want. You might consider asking the FSF, or asking on the OSI's license-discuss mailing list. Perhaps you can use the language fropm the GPLv3 draft in your clarification.

BTW, appealing to the authority of your lawyers (who have, at least in this matter, appaently served you rather poorly) will get you nowhere.

Your clarification still has problems of clarity, since it talks about 'hosting the source code', not 'making the application functionality available over a network', or some similar phrase. I would resist the urge to invent your own terminology. Borrow something that has already withstood peer review.

As for calling you, I'll stress again that IANAL, and TINLA, so I don't think I'd be able to help much beyond giving this sort of public critique.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Don&#8217;t adopt the AGPL. It has it&#8217;s own bugs (in terms of specifying the means that source must be made available).</p>
<p>The notice requirement I referred to is that you were effectively saying &#8216;you must tell us that you have made a modified version&#8217; by requiring an upload to your SVN server.</p>
<p>I am unsure what would be the best way compatible with the GPL to accomplish the effect you want. You might consider asking the FSF, or asking on the OSI&#8217;s license-discuss mailing list. Perhaps you can use the language fropm the GPLv3 draft in your clarification.</p>
<p>BTW, appealing to the authority of your lawyers (who have, at least in this matter, appaently served you rather poorly) will get you nowhere.</p>
<p>Your clarification still has problems of clarity, since it talks about &#8216;hosting the source code&#8217;, not &#8216;making the application functionality available over a network&#8217;, or some similar phrase. I would resist the urge to invent your own terminology. Borrow something that has already withstood peer review.</p>
<p>As for calling you, I&#8217;ll stress again that IANAL, and TINLA, so I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;d be able to help much beyond giving this sort of public critique.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander Muse</title>
		<link>http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-53292</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Muse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 05:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-53292</guid>
		<description>I read over the Affero GPL and it seems to address this point.  But so does the GPL if you interpret private as the authors of the GPL do.  The Affero people suggest themselves,

"&lt;big&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;small&gt;The GNU General Public License does an excellent job  of protecting freedoms for users and developers, but there are questions  about the applicablity of the license for software that is run over a network."&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/big&gt;

Our lawyers think a simple clarification provided in the notice section before the license can accomplish the same result. I am reluctant to adopt the Affero license, but we will consider it over the next few days.  Again, thanks...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read over the Affero GPL and it seems to address this point.  But so does the GPL if you interpret private as the authors of the GPL do.  The Affero people suggest themselves,</p>
<p>&#8220;<big><small></small><small>The GNU General Public License does an excellent job  of protecting freedoms for users and developers, but there are questions  about the applicablity of the license for software that is run over a network.&#8221;</small></big></p>
<p>Our lawyers think a simple clarification provided in the notice section before the license can accomplish the same result. I am reluctant to adopt the Affero license, but we will consider it over the next few days.  Again, thanks&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander Muse</title>
		<link>http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-53291</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Muse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 04:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.texasstartupblog.com/2006/12/11/gpl-license-terms/#comment-53291</guid>
		<description>With regard to point #1 I read the FAQ clarification and it specifically points out the confusion caused by the modifier "private". The author indicates that they are going to clarify in version 3.  We could not wait for clarification and did so ourselves.

Now on to point #2.  I think this is just a mistake.  I have modified the language to clarify that we simply want the modified code released (not necessarily to our SVN).
Your forth point (marked 3) indicates that notice is required.  We have not made any sort of notice requirement.  What do you refer to?

Finally, give me a call to discuss, I am sure you can help us get this right.  My number is 214.550.2003.  Thanks for the comment and the thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regard to point #1 I read the FAQ clarification and it specifically points out the confusion caused by the modifier &#8220;private&#8221;. The author indicates that they are going to clarify in version 3.  We could not wait for clarification and did so ourselves.</p>
<p>Now on to point #2.  I think this is just a mistake.  I have modified the language to clarify that we simply want the modified code released (not necessarily to our SVN).<br />
Your forth point (marked 3) indicates that notice is required.  We have not made any sort of notice requirement.  What do you refer to?</p>
<p>Finally, give me a call to discuss, I am sure you can help us get this right.  My number is 214.550.2003.  Thanks for the comment and the thoughts.</p>
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